Your Company Is Lying to You: The Hidden Trust Crisis Destroying Organizations from Within

What is the most dangerous lie in business?

The one that most leaders don't even realize they're telling.

The truth is, most leaders don't lie.

But many organizations tell stories that employees no longer believe.

"We value transparency."

"We care about our people."

"We encourage innovation."

"We want honest feedback."

The problem?

Employees don't judge leadership by what leaders say.

They judge leadership by what they experience.

And when words and actions don't align, trust begins to disappear.

Not overnight.

Not because of one bad decision.

But through hundreds of small moments where people conclude:

"They don't mean what they say."

The most dangerous threat to culture isn't conflict, turnover, or AI.

It's the widening gap between leadership intent and employee experience.

Because once trust is lost, everything becomes harder:

Communication.

Accountability.

Engagement.

Innovation.

Execution.

And rebuilding trust takes far longer than destroying it.

So here's the question:

Does your organization have a culture problem...

or a trust problem?

On this episode of Mainline Executive Coaching ACT, Rich Baron and Maikel Bailey tackle one of the most overlooked and consequential leadership challenges facing organizations today:

The Most Dangerous Lie in Business: The One Nobody Knows They're Telling

Leaders, Lead Well!

Thank you to all of our listeners in over 140 countries and 1,600 cities worldwide, we greatly appreciate your support! We truly hope that what we bring to our listeners will improve your ability as leaders.

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John Mattone Global:                                                                                                          https://johnmattone.com/

Rich Baron:
rbaron@richbaronexecutivecoaching.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rich-baron/
rich@johnmattone.com

Maikel Bailey:
mbailey@intelligentleadershipec.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/maikelbailey/
https://maikelbailey.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Let's get good this thing going here today. This is mainline executive coaching. Act, thank you for joining us today. Mainline Executive Coaching. ACT. That's right. We're going to be looking at leadership and we're going to look at culture today and how this all works. And how is your culture doing? And we're going to look at kind of the dark side of leadership and where that dark side of leadership can lead the culture. Not in a transformative way, but kind of in a degenerating, sad way. That's what we'll be looking at. I'm here today with my partner. This is Rich Barron. I'm Michael Bailey, again, mainline executive coaching ACT. Rich, we are talking about trust. Your company may be lying to you. Let's start here. What's that all about?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

You know, uh, here's an interesting thing, Michael. And this, I just explained this a little bit to you, but this really came about from uh a phone call I got today from a family member who's experiencing some things in her organization, and called me up to get some advice. Is this, you know, is this real business uh stuff that that's going on? And part of it, yeah, was pretty common. But the other part was an absolute lack of accountability and pretty for for lack of a better explanation, uh, a bold-faced lie. A lie. Where and now uh a lot of the employees are getting caught in in the middle. And so this really made me think, you know, we hear about AI. AI constantly, AI is all over everywhere. It's a big topic, right? Is that a big problem in your your companies? Um, you know, right now, economy, inflation is uh at the forefront, I think, of everybody's mind. You know, I don't think you can have a conversation anywhere without hearing uh about inflation and the economy, you know, globally, locally, whatever that might be. And but the real problem is the elephant in the room. It's the lack of trust. All of the things that are going on, and we see this constantly, don't we, uh, Michael, in in media. We see it in government, we see it in business, we see it in the leaders that we talk to, we see it in the organizations we work with. There is a significant amount of trust, which honestly is probably, if we really break it down, probably the biggest issue in business today. Why are companies why can't they why can't most companies just be straight up and tell the truth or be transparent? And maybe it's not even uh telling the truth, but it's careless the way they're handling things. It's absolutely careless. And because of doing that, it's true it creates this huge lack of trust.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

That's very true. Distrust. What's gonna happen if we have more and more distrust? What are the fallouts? What are the things that then long term happen? What are we gonna do about it? Because the fact of the matter, what it brings us together, what keeps us connected to each other, yeah, is just what we've always known, and it is trust, the ability to trust. Even in times that may be difficult, maybe they're not telling us everything, but still I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm gonna cut you some slack. I'm gonna allow it to work itself through because I think in the long run, you'll management leadership will prove themselves to be trustworthy. How about that? Trustworthy, worthy of our trust. But that seems to be going in a very different way. Globally, trust is declining, employee engagement is remains low and probably is becoming more disconnected. Leaders often believe that they are communicating clearly, honestly, but in fact, that's not the way it's being received by the employees. They're having a very different kind of experience. So what's going on? I mean, there was just a trial recently about one young man killing another young man. It's it was a horribly tragic situation.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Oh man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

On one hand, the fact pattern seems very clear. On the other hand, their fact pattern on the other side seems very clear. What do you do? How do you sort this stuff out? How do you get to a place of trust? Because without that trust, what you have, whether it's in politics, every social kinds of things that happen, uh business, whatever it may be, what follows distrust is dangerous. It's it's crazy, it's insanity. That's what really starts to happen here. So we're not in a good, we're not going in a good direction. So what are we gonna do here? What are we gonna be looking at and helping our listeners today help them to see more clearly, help them to start figuring out, not from a position of being victimized or playing the victim, but what can they do about it in terms of their own personal sanity and personal integrity and you know being responsible about what they can be, but responsible about.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Absolutely. Michael, you you hit on something. This trial that has been going on, and it's so sad, really, because two young men have lost their lives. One literally, and the other has gone now to prison for the rest of his life. And the the interesting thing about this is you look at the facts from both sides, the way one side sees it, the way the other side sees it, that whole incident was two minutes long. From start to finish. From the first words that were said to the end was two minutes long. That's it. And it has created a huge rift. Um, and if you know, I don't want to really get in the the names or or anything around uh who's involved, but there is therein lies a lot of the problems. Something can happen in your leadership or a lack of transparency or a misunderstanding, or whatever that is, and it it sets the precedence to go going forward. One little incident, you know, and just like this one, it was a two minute two minutes long. One young man was was was stabbed and killed, and the other is in prison now. And whose whose story is is most believable? Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Here's the thing if leaders are, and we can say this in the in this instance as well, either side, if one side or the leadership is saying we are communicating, we believe, clearly to you, and yet the employees, the other side, are saying, that's not what we're experiencing. That's uh that's an impasse. That's a place where we've got a problem of some sort. What do we now do to start breaking that down so that what we think we were saying really clearly, they're not getting, and what they're not getting is we don't get why they don't understand what we're saying here. How do we get to break that down to again rebuild trust?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

That is, I think, what we need to talk about, right? How do we rebuild trust or how do we set things straight uh, you know, from from both sides? You know, if you think about it, Michael, this and going back to this trial, there's more more here to to to unpack than than anything. And this, I think it really goes out into business, it goes out into politics, goes out into uh our neighborhoods. You know, the whole thing around that was that one young man was trying was got under another team's uh shelter, it was raining. And this was a high school track meet, okay? Really, if the you look at the root cause, get out of here. I don't we don't want you here, you know, you're in the wrong place. Instead of maybe asking the question, why are you here? What's going on? Raising assumptions. You know, and so you know, could that have been handled uh differently? You know, I wasn't there, I don't know. But from uh from a uh a spectator's point of view, yeah, I think there's I I think there's a lot of things that could have been handled differently there. But I think this goes this transfers over into our tolerance levels of anything that goes on now in society. Right, wrong, cross the line, there's no gray area, uh, you know, it's my side's right, your side's wrong. It's always that way. And uh so I think that really comes comes down to to trust in organizations, right? And and I think some of these examples that we can talk about here is this this is an interesting one, you know, with with organizations stating we value transparency.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

We value transparency, yes, absolutely. We're we're but the information is withheld. So the question there is, is it really withheld or is it a lack of understanding by the person delivering the message that may yeah, I did tell them that. Well, maybe you didn't. Maybe you didn't communicate it like you thought you did. But the end perception is information is withheld, and maybe intentionally withheld, you know. Just like this in the the call I got today from my niece, it was obvious from the whole circumstances the information was withheld.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Let's give some additional examples here that kind of you know screw your mind kind of things that don't make sense to people. You know, it's like we say this, but this is what happens. For instance, we support innovation, but we public we we we punish failure.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

That yeah, absolutely supporting innovation, yeah. But if you fail, you're out.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah, well, people are our greatest asset, but layoffs occur with little communication. We want feedback. Come on, we need your feedback, but nothing changes.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah, I gotta tell you, Michael, that one that you just said, people are our greatest asset, raises the hair on the back of my neck. And I think we've talked about this. I have a real professional disdain, personal disdain for organizations who say, Yep, our employees are our greatest asset. Assets are something the company owns by definition. There's an amortization and uh depreciation value attached to assets. They're not an asset. People are not an asset, and the longer we treat people like an asset, the more lack of trust we're gonna get. You're not an asset, they're not an asset, they're part of the a greater whole and should be treated that way. But if you're treating them like an asset, yeah. We'll just yeah, layouts occur with little communication.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

And that's what it keeps coming back to it's little communication, it's not really getting into some real difficult questions or difficult areas to talk about. It's not really it's kind of playing at that superficial level and yet expecting deep trust or loyalty to be to be returned by those that are in the organization. So, this whole thing about what does it mean if you're a leader and you're sitting there in your office presently and you're listening to this uh conversation we've got going on on the podcast here, and you're wondering, do people really trust us? Do they really believe what it is that we're telling them? Do they really have this sense of um being in with us and what it is that we're doing? Is there a real loyalty coming back that we'll take care of things and we'll take care of them? How would you know? It's easy to tell yourself a story, but how would you know? How would you know if that's really true? Because people will tell you what it is you want to hear. The higher up the ladder you go, the harder the trust and the truth is to get to. Yeah. What's really going on here? How do we start beginning to break that down? Because yeah, I like what it says. Trust is not determined by what leaders say, trust is determined by what employees experience.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Absolutely. You know, Michael, when we talk about what with what we do with coaching and the inner core, inner core of an organization, the you know, inner core of an organizational culture is really the CEO and the senior leadership team, as they are the inner core of the company. And rightly so. That's where the you know a lot of the decisions are made. The a lot of the vision is developed. And same thing with with um, you know, the the the leader itself, the the personal. We start with that inner core, but it is always how do people experience you on that outer core, what what they see you? How do they how do they actually experience you as a leader or experience you as an organization? And that that's a great question to be asking yourself. What are they our employees really experiencing? Are they experiencing what we we intentionally want them to experience, or do we have any clue what's actually getting out of it?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

That's a great question. Do we have any clue? How can defined what it is that we want them to experience?

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah, oh yeah. And you know, back to one of the examples you gave, we want feedback, but nothing changes. How is that feedback being received? You know, we talk about this this too, is you know, you're waiting so many companies wait till that one time of the year, that that wonderful time of the year when they do annual reviews.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

You know, it's like it's tax time, you know, April 15th's coming. Well, no, no, it's it's our we're gonna get our evaluations. Maybe maybe we're gonna even get a raise. But suddenly during that annual evaluation, they get slammed with something they never saw coming. Well, you know, when did that take place? Well, what happened to the rest of the feedback that during the rest of the year? Are you actually asking for feedback, giving feedback constantly, and then just are you falling through on that? Or you're waiting till that magic time of the year to throw that, you know, wrench uh between their eyes.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

See, one of the things I hear you saying here is what really what we're really talking about is the leadership's ability to create and maintain and sustain relationships. Yes. That's what we're really talking about. Yes. Without that ability to really create and sustain relationships, there is no relationship. So if there's no relationship relationship, how can there really be trust? So we really don't know what's going on, and and because people generally are fear-driven, it's easy for them to assume the worst. It's easy for them to uh become skeptical about what's being said, particularly when things they don't understand what's going on. You're saying this, but this is what we're seeing, this is what we're experiencing. So when you take a look at that, what what is it that leaders are going to have to do to build trust or rebuild trust? They're going to have to do something different because what they're doing now really isn't working. And they may, again, they may think that it's working great, but how do you really know?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

That's a that's a good question. How do you know? We start with something we call the MLEI for the individual, but we also do something for organizational culture, which we call that the CTRA 40 that really takes a close look at the inner core of not only the leader, but the company itself. And a lot of the things that we find, Michael, is is that even if it's a small leadership team, five, six, whatever, um there is a huge discrepancy, even among a small team like that, that they think they're communicating, they think they're on the same page. But without fail, we find out that and they're not. And that becomes that big shocker. Well, what do we do to fix it? Because we're not, and that's that vulnerability. Are you open enough to really get the feedback on who you are?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

I remember that one group we went into and we talked to. I was just thinking about that. Yeah, fairly new CEO. She was new at the position. This, I think this is the first time she ever had a real CEO uh position. So it was new to her. Yeah. Not only the position, but being in that seat was new to her. And we started watching the uh the fractions, different factions, rather, the different factions start emerging out of this, you know, fairly large group of people. That's what like 20 people or so since the leadership stuff, right? Yeah. Uh, I mean, she was like reduced to tears. Yeah, she did not know what to do. And uh, and so it gets to be a very interesting thing of how comfortable, I mean, and and this is a serious question, not something to be blown off. How serious leaders are you um excuse me, a serious question. How easy is it for you to sit down and have a lunch with employees, no matter what level they're at? Can you could you sit down in the in the uh in just the the regular place where everybody goes to eat? Can you sit down with them and just have a conversation? Would you be comfortable? Would you feel uncomfortable? Would you feel awkward? Would you be willing to be uh opened up, transparent about any conversations, any subjects that they brought up? Do you have that kind of courage? Do you have that kind of confidence in yourself that you could go do that anytime, any place with anybody in the organization? Could you really do that?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

And would you do that even if you had the the opportunity, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Well, sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Would you would you take the opportunity to just go sit down with them and and find out what's going on? You know, Michael, I uh now that you mentioned that, there's something I wanted to read here. And here this is from that that assessment that we did with that large group of people. Okay. And if you remember, um the CEO had just been promoted from another position, but during the course of that meeting, um, there were two people who stood out who were um forcefully trying to direct the conversation. And there were some people you could tell weren't gonna say anything, weren't gonna talk. And they were constantly disputing with us the results of this survey that their team had taken because you know they were trying to dispel any rumors. So this is something this is interesting here in the fact that this is I want I want to read a response here if I can. This is this is an open-ended response, and uh we're of course we're not gonna tell you who the organization is. There were two open-ended responses. Number one, the first one was simply we have made a lot of progress in the last few years. That was one. The next one's even more extensive, and it says that certain leaders do not trust employees to do their jobs or make decisions at their level, but rather than addressing that example where there are specific problems, we micromanage from the highest levels. We are not willing to have difficult conversations and in turn enable the inefficient micromanagement across the organization. For example, people won't give feedback to peers and instead take to leader or executive who takes control to fix a situation with their peers. But that doesn't really fix it. It just continues to perpetuate the problem and promotes ill will across the organization. We give way too many chances to problem employees and are slow to performance manage out, even if we do when necessary. We are generally not aligned on overall mission and vision.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

That's pretty telling. Yeah, that's that's really amazingly frank.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

And you know, we do these surveys in a way that it's all the answers are anonymous. No one knows who, and we we wouldn't give it tell you who it was if they did. But what does that tell you, even from the inner core of the senior leadership of this, and it and it's a very big organization, very prominent, you know, or organization. But yet on the inside, they're saying we don't trust people, essentially. We don't trust them to fix the problems. We micromanage them out, we performance manage out those people that we you know that should have been uh managed out a while ago, but at the same time we continue to give them chances, taking down the trust of the organization. There's no feedback, no one wants to listen, no one wants to give anything.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Well, it really is a lack of alignment with their values. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Lack of out, you know, lack of alignment with their principles, their mission, their vision, their core purpose statement, all that stuff. There's a lack. And so now we were really talking about, and this is the thing to understand, and this is a hard thing to get. Leaders, you don't have to have all the answers when you sit down at a table, whether it's in the morning to breakfast or lunch or even get together afterwards, you don't have to have all the answers. What you do have to bring is your honesty, your willingness to listen, to be open to what people have to say without getting defensive, just to take in the information. Because if you think you've got to have all the answers, you're already positioning yourself that you've got to be right, and if anybody doesn't agree with you, then they're wrong, and you've got to do something about it. Because if they're coming at you, then that's gonna make you look bad, can't look bad. But you know, they don't here's the great thing about it. This is one of the things that I I love about great leaders, they don't care if somebody makes them look bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

And I think that that's a great question and a great statement. They're not afraid of being told the truth.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Or that that other person's opinion.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Yeah. And here uh here's where I think it starts getting dangerous, Michael, is that when when leaders start to uh maybe intentionally or unknowingly, you know, we talk about narcissistic leaders. Some of the things we talked about, they intentionally know they're doing this or you know, gaslighting, whatever, but there are others who may not intentionally know they're doing this. But here's some of the the warning signs. If we look at this, you know, what are what are the the signs that you're starting to lose trust?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Right?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Silence in meetings. Your employees go silent where maybe before they were coming at you with suggestions, maybe some feedback, um you know, hoping to maybe change things. They were trying to implement different ideas or coming with to you with different ideas, but now it's shifted. Now it shifts. Silence, crickets, right? Um, lack of challenge. They no longer challenge you. People don't challenge you anymore. That's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yeah, that's now right there. That's a good one. That's a good one. We can frame that up a little bit differently. Not that they're challenging you. Yeah. Because once you start that personalization of that's where it gets the ego involved in it, they may be just challenging a process, they may be challenging assumptions, they may be challenging the traditional ways of doing something, they may be challenging the how the problem was solved or how the answers uh solutions are being implemented. It's okay to be challenged on any and all those things. Once you start taking it personally, you've just put the noose around your own neck. That's the truth here. And if they are attempting to put the noose around your neck, be smart enough, be wise enough, be mature enough to be able to back that off. Let's say, okay, let's take a look at what's actually going on here. Let's not make it some sort of attack, but let's take a look at what we are doing rather than you know trying to mind-read our motives here. Let's address what we can actually talk about and what we can actually change. And that takes some maturity there, especially if you're dealing with people with a certain amount of um animosity, certain amount of uh, you know, distrust in the just to even engage in the conversation. Uh and see, this is see, this sort of gets to an interesting point, I think. I think behind much of this kind of discussion that we have here, while it's talking about trust and distrust, all those kinds of things, what we're really talking about at some level is the leadership immaturity. That's what we're really talking about. And with that immaturity comes that whole thing of the imposter syndrome.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

That's what we really are starting to look at. The distrust is coming out of leaders believing that should be they should be treated certain kinds of ways and that they want to put on this front and so on and so on. And that's the problem. The leaders don't have the maturity to own up to who they are and where they are in their own leadership development. So instead of being in the role of a leader, they are playing the role of a leader. Two very different things. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah, it's it's either they are the leader or they're fake it. Fake it till you make it.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

They're playing it. Yeah. And if you're playing it, then you're gonna create all sorts of disruptions and distrust and disorganization because you really don't know what you're doing. You don't have the confidence to stand behind it. And either you're gonna, you know, you're just gonna crumble, or what happens many times is you start looking for who do I blame?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Blaming is uh is a huge issue. Blaming and and here's a here's some of the things I'm gonna tell you, leaders, pay attention here. A lot of cultural engagement or culture surveys that we see are that are done in-house, okay? In-house. They've someone's uh you know commissioned HR or someone to let's find out how our employees are doing. So create a survey or get buy one off the shelf or whatever, and we'll do it ourselves. Save some money, we'll do it ourselves. So the the surveys go out there and suddenly the results come back, and now we're looking for someone to blame. It's you know, it might be Bob in shipping, might be Susan over there in RD. That's they're the cause of our poor culture. They look to blame anything but where the the truth lies. Because it certainly can't be ours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Here's the tricky part of that.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Which you that whole thing that you've read back about the feedback and all that kind of stuff, that there are people, there are employees that are kept on that should be terminated, but they just kind of keep them there. Well, why do they keep them there? Because they agree with the bosses, they make the bosses so-called look good. They don't disagree, they don't cause trouble for them, they just kind of do what it is they're told to do. And so then they're not going to touch those people because those are their kind of their their uh their their safety net. They're gonna be protecting the boss. So they'll go and look for those people that might cause a little bit of a ruffle here or there. How can I blame that person because they're causing me a headache, they're causing me some dis uh just some distress in my position because they question me, they don't go along with me. So ironically, they keep the people that keep the organization mediocre, and they go after the people that could potentially make the organization much better. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. So then you start to wonder what the heck is going on with this organization, because obviously they're not playing on a fair level field, they got their own agenda that's going on here. I don't know how to speak up or even talk about this stuff. I don't know how to question about it because they don't make it safe because you can become a target very easily. And they protect the people that are, you know, keeping the company banal, and they're going after the people that want to make the company even better. And then they'll say, Well, we're just being transparent.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yes, that there's some good transparency there. We don't like you, so we're gonna, you know, we're gonna blame it on you, and then we're gonna fire you, and we're gonna feel better about it, and then our culture is gonna get much better, you know. And then that's the other sign about this. What about increased turnover? Low engagement. People aren't talking to you anymore. Do you remember just this just jogged my memory, Michael? I bet you remember this, and it's been some years now, but there was a commercial out, and I don't even remember who did it, but it started with this guy in the morning, you can see he's very lost in thought. And then he's in the shower. And suddenly he jumps out of the shower, grabs his cell phone, and calls into somebody and he says, What if, what if? What if we, you know, and that they're thinking when they start thinking about ways to improve the company all the time, and that what if, if that what if just disappears and you don't hear it anymore, no one cares anymore. That goes away.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Innovation decreases, innovation decreases, absolutely. That's what he's saying. Collaboration suffers, accountability drops, retention, as you're saying, declines, culture weakens. Yeah, all these things start appearing because there's this lack of real leadership development, lack of real ability to build teams, communicate with teams effectively, that brings the cohesion and the trust forward that allows the people to bring their best talents and abilities together to make the business run better, to improve it, all these wonderful things. And so, what you get in is that people quit, people leave.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Yeah, they yeah, they no longer want to say what if anymore.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

So here's the ironic, ironic, ironic irony about this thing is that this is when you have an organization like this, you lose your talent, you lose your best people, and you retain the people that just make you look good, that allow you to look, you know, to maintain you know your position, that agree with you, that are just the yes people, and then you wonder why you aren't a competitive organization. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Yeah, uh, and they wonder, yeah. You know, I guarantee everybody listening to us right now had that time in their lives when they thought, I want to work for whatever company, ACME, you know, whatever company that that is out there. And they got the job, right? They got the dream job and just so excited that they're now working for this company. And a couple years down the road, they quit. They walk out of their what they thought was gonna be their dream job or their dream organization because of this toxic element we're talking about, this lack of trust, these toxic leaders, these people who are are the yes people, yeah. And then love to hear it when people say, Yes, boss, yes, boss, well, I'll do that for you, boss. That, you know, compliance without commitment issue. These are those things that, you know, are are those those warning signs that and if you're not paying attention, what's gonna happen to that great company that might have been a great company at one point.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

What can we do? There's this whole thing that there's this, you know, suggestions are made, challenges are made, what are you gonna do about it? You know, we can say all those kinds of things, but what do you start seeing when questions are made, suggestions are put forth, when you're seeing a challenging but yet responsive organization? What do you see? One of the things that we see here is this connection to intent and impact. Yes. We intend this, we do it, and we have a we have a result. We don't let it wait, we don't let it wane, we don't let it, as you're saying, yeah, it doesn't go out there what if and it gets lost. Right. There's action that follows up so that we can see what's the difference that we can make with this. It's the action to results quotient, starts to happen. If you feel like you're an organization that things aren't happening quickly enough, where is it getting lost? What's actually going on? Who's really sending the stuff in the wrong direction or ignoring it altogether? Part of that also is just tell the truth faster.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah, faster, tell the truth, and it's not just about doing it faster, but simply tell the truth. And and and be be upfront about it. Don't wait. This is and a lot of this comes. We had a great guest, Michael recently, Megan Broker, wrote this book called The Pause Effect. And if you haven't read it or got that book, uh get out there and read that because a lot of what she talks about is exactly what we're saying. Um, you know, tell the truth faster. Don't wait on it. Don't sit on it, even when it's uncomfortable. And I know one of the things that happens with conflict resolution or sitting on something for too long, the longer you sit on it, the harder it gets. The harder it gets to say anything about it, the more uncomfortable it becomes, the more construed in your mind it becomes, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:04

That's right. We make stuff up. That's why people not only become skeptical about what's going on, but now they start making up their own story about what's going on, why we're not getting the full story, why they're hold withholding information, or what it appears like to be withholding the information. So another aspect of this whole thing of bringing it into a healthier place is increase visibility. Now that's a real interesting thing. Yes, because it has so many dimensions to it. Get out of your office, be out there on the floor more, mix up, mix it up with the people at all levels of your organization. Go if your business is on several floors, visit the different floors, be more visible, make more visible what you're doing, make more visible the changes that you're implementing. Talk about them, show them, show the results of that. Have people report what's going on. Yeah, see that they're really and if and again, if the people aren't seeing, they're experiencing a different thing than you're communicating. Let them talk, let their talk be visible. Don't try and stifle it or stuff it away. Let it be more, let it come forth more. Yeah. So they can really understand what's going on. That's when now you're now you're creating a culture that's when we and we're all about and cultural transformation. Think of that. If you've gone from a culture that's shut down, that's protected, that it's guarded, that that that is not open, that is kind of uh operating in the shadows, that is not really bringing forth the truth, and now suddenly it's all becoming visible, it's all up front. You can now see it. What kind of that that's transformation, that's transformation itself.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Absolutely. Do you ever seen the show called The Margin Call?

SPEAKER_00 38:52

I haven't, no.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

If you if you get a chance, watch it. It it really goes back to that uh problem, that uh economy issues and the kind of collapse of Wall Street in 2008 when we saw the big mortgage uh bubble burst. And it really is about this group that started the fire sale that day. They saw it coming, they had analysts that told them, and so it's easier to be first than to be, you know, last, you know, type thing. That's what they came to. But there's this point in there where they've they've raised the the flags. We've got problems. And then suddenly, here comes the big boss flying in in the helicopter. Comes in and lands in this helicopter on the top of this big roof, uh, big building, walks in, and uh it's a very, very interesting scene where he comes in and sits down and he says, Who came up with this report? He's got his whole uh whole group in there, and they point to this one young man and he goes, Okay, who's your name? What's your name? And and so here's the thing: we've got these people creating, bringing up, raising the flags, and the high and mighty fly in in their helicopter, come into the boardroom, okay, who who did this type thing, and then make these decisions that essentially wreck people's lives. I mean, it's it's a very interesting show. If you ever haven't seen it, see it, watch it. I think you'll you'll find that interesting. But I think that comes back to that invisibility. Yes. Oh, here they come, flying in in the helicopter. I've never even been in a room with these guys, but yet here we are. Doesn't know my name but wants to know what I do.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah, yeah. What and then what's the real and what's just the show?

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Yeah, yeah, what's the real and what's the show? But it this is based on actual events.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

How and I mean of course, you know, you you know, there's never we Hollywood always takes some liberties, but nonetheless, there are actual um articles about what really happened, and you know, they think these guys walk on water. They think they walk on water, it's not that even others think they do, they think they do.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Which leads us to this next question of reality, and that's this. The next one is you know, what am I missing?

SPEAKER_01 41:36

What am I missing?

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Yeah. That takes a lot of courage to ask that question in any kind of a meeting. What am I missing, or what are we missing, or what are we not seeing? Especially if you do that kind of an open meeting with the company. What are we not seeing? What are we missing? Because at that point, it's it really is about what is it may what may be my own personal inadequacies that I just don't get that, but I gotta I gotta get it. And that takes a lot of courage to be able to say, hey, don't know it all. I'm not one of the guys that thinks that I walk on water. Oh, yeah. What am I missing? What am I missing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

And you know, if you can really start asking yourself those questions, what am I missing? What do I need to do to fix this? Am I is my communication being received the way I think it is? That might be a legitimate problem. Or are you purposely not communicating holding the truth back or giving f half truth? And then you know, what are what are you missing there? Are you visible?

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Yeah, are you visible? There is uh I'm gonna have you do this. There is a fill in the sentence towards this one research piece that you have done here, and it asks uh or puts forth uh kind of a fill in the blank. Yeah, trust. Give that one to us, and uh and in terms of it's a challenge for you leaders, yeah. And uh don't make it complicated, real simple. So, what's the challenge here, Rich, that this report suggests that we put forth to the people that are listening?

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Yeah, here's it's some questions you need to ask yourself. And really, this one is is really per is really pointing, and it's just a one-word answer. And you can plug in that one word answer with whatever the things we talked about, but the the question is trust is built through the blank. What is that? Is it transparency? Is it feedback? Is it communication? Is it action? Is it visibility? Is it vulnerability? Is it transparency? Uh you know fill in the blank.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Yeah. And then ask yourself, am I doing that?

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Yeah. That's a tough one. That's a that's you know, look yourself straight in the mirror.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

And that's a great place for us to bring it to an end, but it's also a great place to pick up the second part of this conversation, which would be to contact us. How can we help you now that you become more aware? Start noticing some things that may or may not be working for you, but you have a desire to make a difference, really bring your leadership team up to another level, bring your organization up to another level, change in uh that that culture that you have. This is this is all we're doing here is giving you a feeder. Yeah. But where do you want to take from here? I guarantee you, folks that are listening out there, if you find this podcast intriguing, exciting, motivating, yeah, what you're gonna find the work that we can help you do is gonna just it will blow your mind in terms of what it is that you can do with your team, with your organization, with your employees.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

So here's a good answer to that, Michael. Now that I'm thinking about that, trust is built through coaching. It certainly can be. It certainly can be, absolutely. So, you know, I I gotta tell you, um there with what Michael was just saying, there are no shortages of ways to get a hold of us. You can find us on LinkedIn. You can find Michael at michaelbailey.com. Um, and that's M-A-I-K-E-L uh Bailey.com. Um great information on his website, um, great uh opportunities to connect with Michael around these different topics. Uh Rich Barron Executive Coaching.com or look us up on the John Matone Global website. So um there is no shortage of ways to find us. And if you're on LinkedIn, you can find anything on LinkedIn, you can find anybody on LinkedIn, you can find us on LinkedIn, communicate, let's have a let's have a conversation. So, and and really if you're seeing these things happen in your organization or with your people, the time to act is right now. Not next month, not next quarter, and in a ways, not even next week. Time's ticking. And it's getting, and the more that time ticks, the more struggles you're gonna have.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Yeah, what you're just articulating right there is one of the things we talked about. Intention to impact. There you go, yeah. Well, I tend to do this. I intend to make my business better, I intend to make my organization better, I intend to make my leadership work team better, I intend, I tend, I intend, I intend. But do you get around to it? Get around to it now, go straight to it, and then you'll get the impact sooner rather than one day, someday.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Yeah, someday, yeah. Yeah, we're gonna be good next year. Wait till they see our bottom line. End of the quarter.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Pick up that phone, send that email, yeah, send that text.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Well, Michael, I I get I also have to give a big shout out here for Feed Spot. Uh, because you know, we can they continue to really um work with us and monitor what we're doing and can and continue to keep us right up there at the the the top of the ladder uh and with visibility. And I I gotta tell you, thank you so much to FeedSpot. I mean the way they're doing it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Yeah. Absolutely. Don't anybody in particular you want to give a shout out to?

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yes. Uh I I just was looking at some new uh some new locations. And one stood out, and I'm sure we've probably seen this before, but it it's um I I may be wrong, but it's Helsinki. Helsinki, Finland. I know we've seen some others over there, but I don't know that uh, but uh you over the last um couple weeks we've seen at the matter of fact, the last episode, uh a couple episodes we've seen you know them really downloading. Whoever's there in Helsinki, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yes, indeed. Here's one maybe a little less known East Vale, California. I love California. California is one of my favorite states, East Vale.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

I don't even know what East Vale is, but you're from California, that's why you're a California boy.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah, it's a big, it's a big, big state.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

Raised in the sun on the beach, whatever that, you know, the whole oh Malibu, Santa Moise.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

Yeah, yeah, indeed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool stuff, absolute cool stuff. All right, that's a wrap for us today.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

That is a wrap, and you know, as always, you know, we got to tell you these things we talk about, trust and uh transparency and action, it's because that's what servant leaders do. We all are in the same boat together, and it's all important as the leaders that we take care of those individuals that we've been entrusted with: the people, the processes, the organizations. And the way we do that is by being that servant leader. What can we do better for them?

SPEAKER_00 50:04

And I'll I'll add on to what you said there. When you put the effort into be an extraordinary, great, or even just a really good boss, you'll be remembered. I remember uh uh one particular boss that I worked for years and years ago talking about California. This was on Van I's, if you're familiar with Southern California. And it was I was working at a gene shop at the time. The guy's name was Roy. He came out of the military. I remember to this day how great a boss Roy was. I don't remember his last name, but I will always remember Roy. Just because he's a guy that worked hard, he cared, he was interested in the business, in the customers, and he was interested in his employees. Roy. I will always remember him. Be that guy.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Be that guy, be Roy. All right, Michael. What do you say?

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Leaders lead well.